Perfect! Gloss over my perfectly rational opinion, sling false accusations, all the while attempt to spread liberal minded propaganda. Someone said people are scared to say what they really think. I'm not! My points are very valid and true. If you wanna debate, fine, let's debate. If you wanna have a superficial conversation about "Who's hot" on a certain show, then find a way to exchange e-mail.
For those who want to us this forum as a platform to spread their irrational behavior ethics, Life mst be extremely HARD!!
Hmmmm.. Wish y'all could have been around for this debate back in '86 or so. The messages on the BBS's were exactly like the ones in here. Made for an interesting read for sure.
Anyway. Back then I was pro-choice for the simple reason that I believed as many of you do that no one has a right to tell a woman what she can and cannot do with her body. While participating in the debates which raged over a couple of weeks I decided to do a little research. I went to the library (The internet was just being formed and no one had put up web pages back then) and checked out several books that discussed the issue from both sides. Read them and then thought about what I had read. I became a Pro-life advocate. Why?
Responsablity: A person is responsable for the decisions they make. In this case a woman that chooses to have unprotected sex must accept the consequences of that decison.
Life: When is an unborn child considered a child? My conclusion was that life begins at conception. Thus to end that life before birth is murder just as surely as it would be if the child was born and then killed.
Now, as to kids having kids. It's sad no doubt but it is a fact of life that has been with us ever since the dawn of time. As to how to deal with it we do so by education. Just as we do with alcohol and drug education. Just as we do with all the other dangers and threats to our well being that exist out there. And the final lesson that needs to be taught is "RESPONSABILITY FOR ONE'S ACTIONS." The parents are and MUST be held responsable for thier kids actions. It's up to the parents to decide which of two choices to make: Keep the baby or place for adoption.
Just my two cents worth for tonight...
Oh.. Nab.. I love your tag line. Laughed when I first saw it and still chuckle at it... I need to to see if I can find my old file of tag lines, would be a hoot...
My point exactly. If people spent more time talking with their kids instead of watchin and taking about unreality shows they may, not be having to take their daughters to the clinic or help their sons fund a girlfriends trip to the clinic. Quit your worry about dog, and be responsible and spend the precious time with your children that they need and desire.
It just strikes me as odd that a parent would openly express their desire for a t.v. personallity and then when their kids are involved in an unwanted pregnancy, just say " oh darn you're not ready for the responsibility of a child so let's kill it". So if the child is not responsible enough to take care of a baby, who decided they were responsible enough to date? And where does the burden of blame lay? Upon the irresponsible parent who thought only of themselves and their happiness as opposed to teaching their children healthy, responsible, Godly virtues.
I rest my case! Have a Blessed night!!
Wayne, I agree with most of what you say. Regarding education being the way to deal with unwanted pregnancies, alcohol and drug abuse, it would be wonderful if it was that easy. But let's look at how well education has worked in keeping kids off drugs and alcohol. Plain and simple, it hasn't.
Kids nowdays are as bound and determined to have sex, drink and do recreational drugs as they've ever been. The really smart ones whose parents do everything right are less likely to fall prey to these vices...but how many of us know kids that have come from wonderful families with caring, intelligent parents who seemed to do everything right - but still end up in trouble? All of us.
So you've got the young people who never think anything bad will happen to them because they're invincible. Some adults feel and act the exact same way. Smoking cigarettes, never dreaming they'll get lung cancer because that always happens to other people. Over-indulging in alcohol because hey, alcohol's not "really" a drug so it's okay. Most grownups though at least use birth control...at least the ones who aren't deliberately trying to get pregnant to have more children for the additional welfare checks. And the ones who do slip up and get pregnant accidently...well, abortions are cheap, quick and easy.
That said, I have a real problem with the unwanted baby's side of the abortion issue. That child didn't have any choice in being created. That child had the unfortunate luck to be born to someone who didn't want him and who likely won't care for him properly if carried to term. That child will be in for a world of hurt. There are worse things in life than death. Living a life unloved, abandoned, neglected, maybe born drug dependent to a junkie mom. Yes, she's a worthless piece of sh*t. But what about the little baby? What did he ever do to deserve that? Why should he live a life of horror because of her?
Everybody's so quick to call abortion wrong, always wrong, no matter what, no ifs, ands or buts. Murder. A sin. You know what a real sin is? Making an innocent child pay for your mistakes his whole life.
I do agree that kids need to be taught responsibility and consequences for their actions. That being said, I am not naive enough to think that even though kids are taught right from wrong, are in church (even pastor's kids for that matter), and have the whole world in front of them-that they may not try things that are better left untried-ie...smoking, drinking, sex before marriage. I am a mom of four girls-3 of which are teenagers. Yes, I have concerns, not because I don't trust them, but because of what society feeds to them as OK. The idea that abortion can be a quick and easy fix for a problem, as "society" would have us to believe, is ludicrous. There are long-term consequences of abortion, such as possible later infertility and emotional issues as well.
As I have said earlier, I think there are always other options. Of course, the best option would be not to be in that position to begin with, but if someone is, then there is always adoption. There are so many people out there that would love to have children and cannot, that would love the opportunity to adopt someone's "mistake." I personally don't feel any child is a mistake, that God puts us all here for a reason.
Yes there are lots of kids having kids. It is unfortunate, but true. I mentioned before that I am an RN that works in maternal-child health. I get to see these young mom's all the time. I have seen so many sad situations, from girls as young as 11, to girls that are 18 with 4 kids, to young ladies that are 21 with 7 kids and on and on. While this may not be the best situation, many of these girls are good mothers. There are numerous support systems available to them. Often, the families will step in and help raise the children. Kind of like the saying "It takes a village to raise a child." Even with all these unique circumstances that I see, I still believe abortion is wrong. You are right that the baby didn't choose to be created, but neither did it choose to be destroyed. As to the life it may live because it was an unwanted or unplanned pregnancy-who can know. Perhaps, the mother would become used to the idea of pregnancy and actually enjoy it. DHR gets involved with all mothers who test positive for drugs/alcohol, so there is some sort of supervision as far as that concern goes.
I'm shocked no one has said anything about rape. To all the men, who are you to tell a rape victim she has to carry a pregnancy from that rape to full term. I was raped at 13, are you telling me if I had been pregnant from that horrific experience I would have to carry it to full term. There were so many after-effects from that experience I still deal with today. I can't even fathom having a child from that. There are medical reasons too. There is one thing I do take personally, motherhood. I have wonderful boys, all in talented and gifted, extremely well-mannered and with good hearts. I know I've been a good mom. But I know God did not give me a girl for a reason. Another thing, I had to watch my brother and his wife go through hell when they found out they were having conjoined twins (a type where none on record have ever lived) The medical reasons to end the pregnancy were inevitable for twins and mother. Not something they asked for or could change. If we make abortion illegal all over again, women will start dying from sleazy back-alley doctors. Wayne I respect your opinion and beliefs as your own. I respect you studied it and researched it instead of being lead by others. All our personal experiences make us different, and I wish people could change places for one day to get different perspectives.
Nothing to be shocked about actually. I was wondering when the subject of rape would come up. There are several more points that should come up for discussion as well. But back to this one....
A crime was committed upon you. A very horrific crime and I won't insult you by telling you that I understand because we both know that would be a lie. I would however like to ask you to consider the following.
So. If you had become pregnant then you would be the victim of two crimes. And that is something very few people consider: that a second crime has been committed, one that could be considered worse than the first because the victim has to live with it 60 seconds a minute, 60 minutes an hour, 24 hours a day, for about 279 days. And it doesn't just end at the birth of the child. No, it continues on and never goes away. It's always there just under the surface of the life of the victim.
But it's not a hopeless situation. Support from family and friends, clergy if the victim is religious, support groups of various kinds and where available professional counsiling can all combine to help the victim get through the experience. I won't pretend that it would be easy but there is help available.
Now as to your point about medical issues.
Case by case evaluation would have to be the only way a decision can be made. The parents and doctors would have to reach a consensus about what should be done. The courts cannot and should not even try to determine if the baby should live or die. The doctor can only give the historical facts of the likely outcome of the birth and advise the parents of the likely consequences of various decisons they might make. Then the parents would have to make the final decision.
Surprised at the above statement? Yes, I am advocating selective abortion based upon medical issues that threaten the life of the mother. And the only people that can make that decision are the parents; with the advice and council of doctors.
"If we make abortion illegal all over again, women will start dying from sleazy back-alley doctors."
Yes that is true. And knowing that still does not change my stance. It goes back to being responsable and facing up to the decisions they made.
There is nothing easy or clear cut about issues surrounding abortion. Nothing easy at all....
Wayne, in another post I believe you said you are for the death penalty. Does that not contradict your feelings about abortion? If abortion is always murder, is not the deliberate killing of an adult the same? Or is baby-as-innocent versus criminal-as-guilty the difference? To that I'd have to say more and more "guilty" criminals are being set free every day based on sophisticated DNA evidence. We'll never know how many innocent "criminals" were killed in the name of justice.
