vetvoice - 15 January 2008 06:55 PM

rmseek1234 - 15 January 2008 06:27 PM

I know some people don't think the name should be changed, but i just wanted to add this to the discussion:

I don't think the changing of the bridge name would take away from the joy of Dauphin Island at all. I never knew that the bridge was ever named anything but the Dauphin Island bridge(as was reported on the news earlier). I think if the bridge were renamed, or even if a memorial plaque were placed on the bridge, it would honor the children. It would help us to remember them, not that I think anyone could forget. But in reality, I think the locals would continue to call it the Dauphin Island Bridge. This is just a way to memorialize the children and show our respects.

You need to get your bearings. The victims were all under five, have little family in the area and are all Buddhists. Who are we going to remind - their crazy father in prison? Forget this, let it go and do something worthwhile like naming something after the 58,000 men who died in Vietnam so they could come here to live.

They do have something named for the 58,000 Vietnam War veterans. Its called the Vietnam War Memorial. Its in Washington, D.C. Im sure you've been there. A memorial for the kids is a good idea. I dont agree with renaming the bridge in memory of the kids though.

murphygrad - 15 January 2008 07:30 PM

We're jumping the gun on a petition to rename the bridge. As I see it, only two groups have a say in the matter - Kieu Phan and her family, and the residents of Dauphin Island. The rest of us ought to stay out of it, because as sad as we all are, it's none of our business. Let's allow the family and the islanders to make this very personal decision by themselves. Let's be Christians and not judge anyone here. I can't even imagine what the family is going through. Neither can I imagine what it would be like to be reminded of one of the worst murders in the state every single day I drove home from work. God bless the family.

Murphy, Do you really think you won't think about this every time you cross the bridge no matter what the name is?

dspeedster - 18 January 2008 09:08 PM

rmseek1234 - 18 January 2008 04:59 PM

This is not a victory vs. defeat situation. It is only a situation in which an idea was presented to honor the children from the bridge from which they died. Some have asked what I hope to gain by it-I can assure you I want absolutely nothing-but the memory of the children to survive. And that includes whether it be through renaming the bridge, the pass under the bridge, statues of an angel, a fountain or a park in their honor. THIS IS ONLY ABOUT THOSE PRECIOUS LIVES.

I do think the mother needs to have an opinion, before any venue is taken. It most certainly does not need to be right now. But from what little I have worked with the Vietnamese population, I have found them to be private people. All of the wonderful suggestions may be more than she wants to deal with. Perhaps, she only wants to honor their memory at the cemetery. For all I know, there may be a cultural conflict with this. But for us as a community to force this on her would be wrong. The bridge was a beautiful thought from someone posting earlier, that did not know how to go about doing it. All I did was make phone calls, etc to see what could be done and to start the petition to see how many others wanted this-to get the ball rolling so to speak, because I figured it would be a very long process. It did NOT need to come to all this bickering and mean-spiritedness.

I do respect the other suggestions and the other opinions. But I think we need to respect the Mom and each other. And most importantly, respect the memory of the babies. I would hate to think that years from now, no matter what decision is made-that their deaths are remembered for tearing a community in middle, and not joining it together.

(But from what little I have worked with the Vietnamese population, I have found them to be private people.)
Okay! ...then let us respect the family by allowing them just that, privacy. My recommendation again is pull-back. The gesture is again an excellent one. We must pull back and become objective vs. that of being subjective.

Question. Hasn't the Dauphin Island's bridge been previous named in honor of someone else? Are we to dishonor and disband the honor of whom the bridge is named? Correct me if I am wrong. My history may be off on this one.

And yes, I adore the name "Dauphin Island" it has history...pleasant history, fun, fun activities, fun families activities. Let's keep it that way Mobilians. Renaming it to "The Four Angels Bridge," only manifests negative history. Maybe I haven't made it clear prior to now but I am in agreement with some of the other alternatives suggested in prior threads.

I still say the "fence" would be a good idea as a preventive measure.

Prior to discovering this feed "The Four Angels Bridge" I had initiated "Renaming the Dauphin Island's bridge" feed. I mention such because it too has some interesting and educational material that can be associated with this feed, "The Four Angels Bridge." One may find it interesting. It can be located in the same manner as this one. However, I've signed off on the feed.

OK-I am not good at making these quotes jump over-so forgive if this is lengthy. I absolutely agree that they need privacy. I agree, the fence is a good preventive measure. I originally had some questions about it, since I am not a "fence expert" and was quickly educated on that. I am not sure what you meant about being objective rather than subjective. I THOUGHT I was being objective,looking at all the other suggestions and saying that this is really ultimately the decision of the family whether anything is to be done. I have no problem with memorializing the children in a different way, if that is what the mother wants.

As to the name of the bridge, I do not know. I know some have called it Cedar Point bridge, and some have called it Dauphin Island Bridge. I do know that the stretch of 193 or Dauphin Island Parkway that leads up to the bridge is "officially" Robert Cunningham Parkway. But what does everyone call it? Which was my point about the bridge in an earlier post. My main concern is that these children are remembered....ultimately doesn't matter how, whether it be one idea or combination of ideas-just that they are.

I don't know if I would be for this or not. I think everyone should back off and wait for the fourth child to be found.Please stop and think if this was you. All the news coverage and the publicity is over whelming. This mother and family needs time and space to greive. Please wait and give this family the time needed, even if everyone was in favor of renaming the bridge, the Mother does not need to be making decisions like this right now. I would hate to be the one who done this and six months down the road a clear minded family member opposed it. This family needs the time that we all would need. Please, if you want to help just keep praying to find Hannah and pray for this family.

And I absolutely agree, the mother and family need time and space to mourn and grieve. Baby Hannah needs to be found and come home to the Bayou. All this needs to come before ANY memorial can be done. I have said from the beginning-when the time was right, and apologize if my efforts have been viewed as forcing this on the family. I did not know how long of a process it would be and just wanted to get things rolling if this would be something the family would want at a later date. My sincere apologies if I have offended the family. You are in my prayers.

There are so many people out there that are able to search for the children, and now still for Hannah. Those of us that can't be there are looking for other ways to do what we can. Sharing our ideas on how to memorialize the memory of these babies is our part in "what can we do to help?" I do want to point out that some of you are so concerned about what the father is going to think as his glory... I feel sure he thinks that of all the news coverage is the GLORY he was after.. That sick man is going to make anything about the babies, about him in his own mind. We can't not do for the children because he may make it HIS in his own sick way. That is not our issue its his. I agree that is should not be a hyphenated version of the childrens last names or anything because we don't want to put his name on the bridge.. But Four Angels Bridge, just Angel Bridge or Angel Pass would be an honor. I shall not try to take away from anyone else that has lost their life on the bridge but this is about 4 innocent children and no matter how much some don't want to remember... they will, every time they drive across it, as we all will. Not wanting it renamed is definitely one of those things that falls under a "matter of opinion". I do however feel that those that don't want it to happen because they don't want to think about it each trip home or out, that is pretty selfish. This is a tragedy to the entire community. It has touched the hearts of many.. so many people that did not even know these babies have shed tears. I do agree however, that their mother's feelings and opinion on this should be first and foremost considered.. But to all of you that are opposed. I will just say this.. We are ALL entitled to our own opinions....

I agree. I have considered this to be a terrible time when all are distraught. I know for myself I would be distraught. This is why I am so opposed to the renaming... Some other memorial recognition depending on what it would be.

Question. Can one elaborate on the mother's status as a citizen? My reason for asking is that it is consistently stated that it should be up to the mother... let her decide. Granted. What is her status as a citizens? Does anyone know?

Question. Don't all citizens of Mobile pay taxes on the Dauphin Island's bridge? Isn't that a state bridge? Should that be the case then all should be permitted to voice their say perhaps.

I am guessing she is a citizen, just as Loung is. There are many Vietnamese who are citizens, but do not speak English-if that was in your thoughts. I am not sure that "citizenship" should factor into any kind of memorial-it is after all about HER CHILDREN.

Yes, DI bridge is a state bridge, so therefore, I guess we do all pay taxes. And I guess we are getting our say through the petition and the forum( and what a say it has been!) Will it come to a vote, as in one of those things they add to the ballot when there is an election? I don't know.

rmseek1234 - 18 January 2008 10:05 PM

dspeedster - 18 January 2008 09:08 PM

rmseek1234 - 18 January 2008 04:59 PM

This is not a victory vs. defeat situation. It is only a situation in which an idea was presented to honor the children from the bridge from which they died. Some have asked what I hope to gain by it-I can assure you I want absolutely nothing-but the memory of the children to survive. And that includes whether it be through renaming the bridge, the pass under the bridge, statues of an angel, a fountain or a park in their honor. THIS IS ONLY ABOUT THOSE PRECIOUS LIVES.

I do think the mother needs to have an opinion, before any venue is taken. It most certainly does not need to be right now. But from what little I have worked with the Vietnamese population, I have found them to be private people. All of the wonderful suggestions may be more than she wants to deal with. Perhaps, she only wants to honor their memory at the cemetery. For all I know, there may be a cultural conflict with this. But for us as a community to force this on her would be wrong. The bridge was a beautiful thought from someone posting earlier, that did not know how to go about doing it. All I did was make phone calls, etc to see what could be done and to start the petition to see how many others wanted this-to get the ball rolling so to speak, because I figured it would be a very long process. It did NOT need to come to all this bickering and mean-spiritedness.

I do respect the other suggestions and the other opinions. But I think we need to respect the Mom and each other. And most importantly, respect the memory of the babies. I would hate to think that years from now, no matter what decision is made-that their deaths are remembered for tearing a community in middle, and not joining it together.

(But from what little I have worked with the Vietnamese population, I have found them to be private people.)
Okay! ...then let us respect the family by allowing them just that, privacy. My recommendation again is pull-back. The gesture is again an excellent one. We must pull back and become objective vs. that of being subjective.

Question. Hasn't the Dauphin Island's bridge been previous named in honor of someone else? Are we to dishonor and disband the honor of whom the bridge is named? Correct me if I am wrong. My history may be off on this one.

And yes, I adore the name "Dauphin Island" it has history...pleasant history, fun, fun activities, fun families activities. Let's keep it that way Mobilians. Renaming it to "The Four Angels Bridge," only manifests negative history. Maybe I haven't made it clear prior to now but I am in agreement with some of the other alternatives suggested in prior threads.

I still say the "fence" would be a good idea as a preventive measure.

Prior to discovering this feed "The Four Angels Bridge" I had initiated "Renaming the Dauphin Island's bridge" feed. I mention such because it too has some interesting and educational material that can be associated with this feed, "The Four Angels Bridge." One may find it interesting. It can be located in the same manner as this one. However, I've signed off on the feed.

OK-I am not good at making these quotes jump over-so forgive if this is lengthy. I absolutely agree that they need privacy. I agree, the fence is a good preventive measure. I originally had some questions about it, since I am not a "fence expert" and was quickly educated on that. I am not sure what you meant about being objective rather than subjective. I THOUGHT I was being objective,looking at all the other suggestions and saying that this is really ultimately the decision of the family whether anything is to be done. I have no problem with memorializing the children in a different way, if that is what the mother wants.

As to the name of the bridge, I do not know. I know some have called it Cedar Point bridge, and some have called it Dauphin Island Bridge. I do know that the stretch of 193 or Dauphin Island Parkway that leads up to the bridge is "officially" Robert Cunningham Parkway. But what does everyone call it? Which was my point about the bridge in an earlier post. My main concern is that these children are remembered....ultimately doesn't matter how, whether it be one idea or combination of ideas-just that they are.

For example, when one states that he/she has worked with the Vietnamese population... it becomes quite obvious that one is fond of the working/personal relationship. It is obvious that a great rapport has developed. It is not unusual for such a development to matriculate into a more personal one which in terms will make one subjective in reasoning. Don't get me wrong... it's a very good thing to have good relationships with people. We need more of it. We can use more of it world-wide. What I've been trying to do is throw out the pros and cons objectively. I just wanted to illustrate the other side of the coin. One can easily makes this a personal matter when a fine rapport has been developed. That doesn't necessary work for all. As I've stated from day one... it's an excellent and most thoughtful gesture one can demonstrates. God knows ones heart and I am not trying to be harsh or mean-spirited. God knows my heart as well. If I appeared harsh and mean-spirited I sincerely apologize. I only attempted to illustrate the flipped-side of the coin. I love you for what you are seeking. I really think you are smart and a good-hearted individual as well as gusty (smile). Stay strong! Follow your heart. After all this is America...One is entitled to their opinion. I love you.
Thanks for having this dialogue with me.

With Love,

dspeedster

YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!